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using one Dosatron for reactive liquid fertilizer mix for hose/wand watering
I'm designing a simple unit that will take liquid fertilizer - from 2 tanks (equal amounts from each tank) to fertilize the water for manual hose-wand application. I'm leaning towards using the new Dosatron D14MX2.
I'm sure that the ideal solution is to mount 2 such injector units - one for each tank because the fertilizers (complete formulation) are reactive in the concentrated state (application is 1:100). But I'm hoping I can get away with one unit, like with the Measuremix R-1...??
Whether this would work with Dosatron or not, depends on how fast the chemical reaction between the two halves of my formulation takes, and how long the 2 chemicals are mixed together in the suction line / pump chamber before dilution in the mainstream of water.
Any experience?
Thanks
Gerald
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Michael Pawelek on -
Gerald, I have used a single injector for my nursery for over 25 years from back in the days when they cost many thousands of dollars even for the smallest unit and have grown many, many successful crops this way. It is not necessary to feed every single element to the plants at every feeding and most that use single head injectors have two stock tanks mounted side by side near the injector where the suction tube can be simply moved from tank to tank in mere seconds. Chemical reactions between concentrated solutions that are acidic and alkaline are instantaneous and even if the suction tubes meet right at the injector you will have some type of reaction and precipitation of some of the contents. Using two stock tanks one tank can contain N,P,K, Mag, all the trace elements and the acids and the other tank the calcium loaded fertilizers. I doubt if what you are trying to do would damage any of the plants but if this were possible it most probably would have been accepted in the industry 25-30 years ago. I'm not a gambler with my income and reputation and feel saving a few hundred dollars to experiment is not worth having a crop come out deficient and not salable. Back in my younger days in the business I added a acidic mixture to a stock tank that was not cleaned out well and had about 1/4" of solution at the bottom and the instantaneous fumes produced knocked me out for 15 minutes. I was very lucky to not have any permanent repercussions from the incident and since then don't try to change the rules when it comes to chemistry. Others may chime in with good reports of blending acids and bases right before the injector and I would be curious how it was done but at this point my vote would be "no".
Michael Pawelek
Pecan Hill Nursery
www.pecanhillnursery.com
PS- There have been some calcium/magnesium blended fertilizers on the market for years now but in my case the alkalinity rate in my well water is much higher than they are intended to reduce but they might work in your case depending on the water componants.
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Permalink Reply by Gerald van Koeverden on -
Michael Pawelek said:Gerald, I have used a single injector for my nursery for over 25 years from back in the days when they cost many thousands of dollars even for the smallest unit and have grown many, many successful crops this way. It is not necessary to feed every single element to the plants at every feeding and most that use single head injectors have two stock tanks mounted side by side near the injector where the suction tube can be simply moved from tank to tank in mere seconds. Chemical reactions between concentrated solutions that are acidic and alkaline are instantaneous and even if the suction tubes meet right at the injector you will have some type of reaction and precipitation of some of the contents. Using two stock tanks one tank can contain N,P,K, Mag, all the trace elements and the acids and the other tank the calcium loaded fertilizers. I doubt if what you are trying to do would damage any of the plants but if this were possible it most probably would have been accepted in the industry 25-30 years ago. I'm not a gambler with my income and reputation and feel saving a few hundred dollars to experiment is not worth having a crop come out deficient and not salable. Back in my younger days in the business I added a acidic mixture to a stock tank that was not cleaned out well and had about 1/4" of solution at the bottom and the instantaneous fumes produced knocked me out for 15 minutes. I was very lucky to not have any permanent repercussions from the incident and since then don't try to change the rules when it comes to chemistry. Others may chime in with good reports of blending acids and bases right before the injector and I would be curious how it was done but at this point my vote would be "no".
Michael Pawelek
Pecan Hill Nursery
www.pecanhillnursery.com
PS- There have been some calcium/magnesium blended fertilizers on the market for years now but in my case the alkalinity rate in my well water is much higher than they are intended to reduce but they might work in your case depending on the water componants.
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Permalink Reply by Gerald van Koeverden on
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Michael,
Thanks so much for your generous reply.
I was just dreaming that the chemical reaction would be very slow instead of instantaneous...I'm sure you are correct.
I like your solution - just fertilize half of the nutrients at a time.
As far as which tool to use, what do you recommend? That new Dosatron (D14MX2) with only 1/3 of the moving parts looks great on paper.
(I was also playing around with the idea of going low tech and trying the Mazzei venturi system (http://www.agriculturesolutions.com/Fertilizer-Injectors/Mazzei-Inj...) but it looks like it would need a lot of calibration to get it right and then keep it right...too many variables??
Thanks
Gerald
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Permalink Reply by Michael Pawelek on
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Gerald, I am not familiar with the Dosatron units. In the past I have used the no longer made HPI unit from England, Dosmatic, Chemilizer and am now using the Anderson "Andy Jr." Each of these brands has their pro's and con's. When I was first in business years ago and had absolutely no money to improve my business I tried several brands of venturi type proportioners and found them extremely variable depending on the water pressure before the unit and how much I was pulling out the hose end. Besides accuracy and reliability remember to account for the minimum volume and the maximum volume you need the injector to work. My operation is small and I may use a hand held mist nozzle that uses 1/2 gallon of water per minute up to 3 large garden hoses that pull 15 gallons per minute and not all injectors will work at both these flow rates. All in all be sure to have on hand a good EC meter to make sure what ever you use is putting out what you want at the end of the hose. I carry my EC meter with me all the time not only to check the EC after I mix up a new batch of feed but also on a daily basis to see what I am actually feeding at the bench. I have to use so much sulfuric acid in my feed mix to adjust my alkalinity that it bleaches the fertilizers to a clear color and without the EC meter I would have no idea if the injector was working properly. They are after all just machines and will eventually wear out or break and not proportion properly.
Michael Pawelek
Pecan Hill Nursery
www.pecanhillnursery.com
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Permalink Reply by Lela Kelly on -
My recommendation is to use 2 of the Dosatron D14MZ2 (14 GPM) . The cost of each of these injectors is about $330 each and will be able to inject the two different types of fertilizers. As the fertilizer will be diluted when it comes in contact with the second solution , you should not have a precipitation problem.
Many of our customers do this type of installation and have not had problems with it.
Always be sure to use a 200 Mesh filter on the incoming water supply and be sure that the 14 GPM (Max flow) is sufficient for your application.
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Permalink Reply by Lela Kelly on
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Gerald van Koeverden said:Michael,
Thanks so much for your generous reply.
I was just dreaming that the chemical reaction would be very slow instead of instantaneous...I'm sure you are correct.
I like your solution - just fertilize half of the nutrients at a time.
As far as which tool to use, what do you recommend? That new Dosatron (D14MX2) with only 1/3 of the moving parts looks great on paper.
(I was also playing around with the idea of going low tech and trying the Mazzei venturi system (http://www.agriculturesolutions.com/Fertilizer-Injectors/Mazzei-Inj...) but it looks like it would need a lot of calibration to get it right and then keep it right...too many variables??
Thanks
Gerald
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Permalink Reply by Lela Kelly on
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A Mazzei venturi system can be less accurate as it is not a positive displacement injector and depends on pressure and flow. Venturi systems are mostly used in field applications for large farms as there is more of a buffer in soil.
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Permalink Reply by Eric Rohloff on -
Gerald, I would say go with the Dosatron. We have the older units that we use for portable applications or hanging on our booms. I have one unit that is dedicated for Bonzi applications and others for fungicides or speacial treatments. Get two units for safety when injecting non compatible ferts. into the same line. I had this setup years ago with two inline with a piece of 4" PVC 12" long between them to get a smoother flow to the second injector.
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Permalink Reply by Steve on -
Use an Anderson Injector they cost more but they will still be on the job 30 years from now. You will be lucky if you get 3 years out of your dosamatic, dosatron.... what ever. The way an Anderson Injector works they have a seperate pump for each chemical and it all gets mixed in a mixing tank before being sent down stream. I am interested in what you are mixing that is reacting with each other.
s.
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Permalink Reply by Lela Kelly on
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Sorry to hear you only got 3 years out of a Dosatron. I visit customers all the time who have them for 10-15 years depending on how they are used and if they do any maintenance. Anderson injectors are good equipment, glad to hear they work for you.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Pawelek on
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I have to agree that "maintenance" is the key to keeping any style injector working properly. All the brands I mentioned in my post above each had their particular maintenance parts that occassionally needed to be traded out and this has been with a huge 20 micron filter being used at all times between the water wells and the injection units. Even as a small operation that only uses 500-1000 gallons of water many days I've never had any type of injector that did not have to have some type of minor parts change out at least twice a year. I have water really loaded with calcium but even the expensive filter does not appear to work perfectly. What ever unit I have used I always keep spare o-rings, springs and piston parts on hand and a good EC meter is a must to see how a unit is performing. In my opinion running a nursery without a good pH meter and EC meter would be similiar to driving a truck blindfolded. It can be done but eventually you'll crash! :)
Michael Pawelek
Pecan Hill Nursery
www.pecanhillnursery.com
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Permalink Reply by Lela Kelly on
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Thank you for stressing a good, calibrated EC meter! I cannot tell you how few growers actually do this on a regular basis! I did not know that EC meters calibration fluid only last about 1 year!
We have a new injector (DM11F) 11 GPM (preset at 1:128) which can handle very hard water and may be a choice for you in the future. It only costs around 235$ and does not have a sliding piston. We sell it into the livestock industry because they have even more severe water issues.
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