Zoning and Land Use issues for greenhouses and garden centers

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Permalink Reply by Steve on March 8, 2010 at 1:22am

I have had several skirmishes with local Planning and Zoning. So far the score is 2 for the company and 0 for local government! My first advice to anyone who is seeking to add on or remodel existing facilities or adding a new location is to read your state's Zoning Laws in their entirety word for word! If you think local government will automatically tell you what your rights are... THINK AGAIN! Most local governments know that the average Joe doesn't know what his rights are. So they bully you into doing what they want you to do. Right up until you remind them that section 3 paragraph 4 of the States zoning regulations states that.... When they know that you know what your rights are it is amazing how suddenly they back off of their B.S.! In our state (KY) an agricultural entity is defined as 5.1 acres and Horticultural companies that raise flowers or ornamental plants are defined as Agricultural entities. You have many more rights as an Agricultural entity (generally speaking) than a normal commercial company. In our state, Agricultural entities are exempt from all zoning regulations except for setbacks and right of ways (for roads) building in a flood plain and the residence on the property. My advice if you are going to build a store along with a garden center and/or greenhouses is to buy enough property so that you can have two separate deeds. One Deed for the Store and a small parking lot and you will have to endure all the commercial zoning crap for that portion. And a second Deed where the garden Center and/or greenhouses are located. This property has to be large enough to qualify as an Agricultural Entity under your states zoning code. The store and the garden center can sit side by side each other but it side steps a lot of crap. Many local governments are not nearly as knowledgeable about the zoning laws pertaining to agricultural entities as they are commercial entities. In the towns there just aren't that many farms. So agricultural entities get bullied into complying with stuff that they are not legally required to comply with. Know your Rights! Read your states laws concerning Zoning and Building Codes. Note any special breaks that agricultural entities are afforded. Read these sections of the law every year as Legislatures are always jerking the laws around. What may have been true last year may not apply this year. In many cases local laws are in conflict with state laws. I wanted to build a greenhouse on one of our farms in another county. After contacting the County Judge Executive with a request to widen our county road into the farm to accommodate Semi's He informed me that I would have to "contact Planning and Zoning and that I would have to have a conditional use zoning permit to build my greenhouse. The farm was not in any city or hamlet. I would have to submit a scaled drawing of my farm along with the proposed location of the greenhouse, parking lot, etc.. I would have to have a public hearing on the proposed change, yada yada yada. So I drafted him a letter and quoted him the above statues in our state law and informed him that based on the afore mentioned statues that I was exempt from his conditional use zoning permit and any further attempts to enforce it would be met with litigation! I received a letter from the county attorney 3 days latter stating that I was exempt from their conditional use permit :) ! 3 Years ago we wanted to add a garage/wood shop to our garden center property (property is listed on 2 deeds. 7.6 acres on one deed (where we wanted to build the building) and 3.1 acres on the second deed.) My dad the owner of the company went down to Planning and zoning to get his building permit. The personnel at P&Z informed him that he was out of compliance that he was operating a commercial company in an R-4 zoned residential area and he could not obtain a permit. He told them that he was a farm. P&Z incorrectly informed him that he had to have 10 acres to be a farm (and older statue.) He informed them that he in fact owed 10 acres. They then informed him that it all had to be on one deed and that if he wanted to hire an attorney and pay the court costs to merge the two deeds that they would reconsider afterward. He came home empty handed (no permit) So I persuaded him to let me have a crack at them. The next day I went down and spoke to the same individual. And he started to hand me the same song and dance... right up till I ask him if he was enforcing the laws of the State of Kentucky or was he just making up his own laws as he went along? I then reminded him of the definition of an Agricultural entity in our state is 5.1 acres and since we wanted this building build on our 7.6 acre property that had been a greenhouse for the last 30 years what was the problem? I then ask him if he would like to read a photocopy of the stated statue defining agricultural entities I happen to have brought a copy with me (grin, grin) ... After some looking and a chat with his supervisor, I got my building permit! Moral of the story... know your rights and come prepared with the facts "and the truth shall set you free"!

Best wishes,

s.

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Permalink Reply by Delilah Onofrey on March 9, 2010 at 2:27pm

Thanks, Steve! This is exactly the kind of information I'm looking for. I may follow up with you again as I get deeper into my project.

Delilah

Steve said:

I have had several skirmishes with local Planning and Zoning. So far the score is 2 for the company and 0 for local government! My first advice to anyone who is seeking to add on or remodel existing facilities or adding a new location is to read your state's Zoning Laws in their entirety word for word! If you think local government will automatically tell you what your rights are... THINK AGAIN! Most local governments know that the average Joe doesn't know what his rights are. So they bully you into doing what they want you to do. Right up until you remind them that section 3 paragraph 4 of the States zoning regulations states that.... When they know that you know what your rights are it is amazing how suddenly they back off of their B.S.! In our state (KY) an agricultural entity is defined as 5.1 acres and Horticultural companies that raise flowers or ornamental plants are defined as Agricultural entities. You have many more rights as an Agricultural entity (generally speaking) than a normal commercial company. In our state, Agricultural entities are exempt from all zoning regulations except for setbacks and right of ways (for roads) building in a flood plain and the residence on the property. My advice if you are going to build a store along with a garden center and/or greenhouses is to buy enough property so that you can have two separate deeds. One Deed for the Store and a small parking lot and you will have to endure all the commercial zoning crap for that portion. And a second Deed where the garden Center and/or greenhouses are located. This property has to be large enough to qualify as an Agricultural Entity under your states zoning code. The store and the garden center can sit side by side each other but it side steps a lot of crap. Many local governments are not nearly as knowledgeable about the zoning laws pertaining to agricultural entities as they are commercial entities. In the towns there just aren't that many farms. So agricultural entities get bullied into complying with stuff that they are not legally required to comply with. Know your Rights! Read your states laws concerning Zoning and Building Codes. Note any special breaks that agricultural entities are afforded. Read these sections of the law every year as Legislatures are always jerking the laws around. What may have been true last year may not apply this year. In many cases local laws are in conflict with state laws. I wanted to build a greenhouse on one of our farms in another county. After contacting the County Judge Executive with a request to widen our county road into the farm to accommodate Semi's He informed me that I would have to "contact Planning and Zoning and that I would have to have a conditional use zoning permit to build my greenhouse. The farm was not in any city or hamlet. I would have to submit a scaled drawing of my farm along with the proposed location of the greenhouse, parking lot, etc.. I would have to have a public hearing on the proposed change, yada yada yada. So I drafted him a letter and quoted him the above statues in our state law and informed him that based on the afore mentioned statues that I was exempt from his conditional use zoning permit and any further attempts to enforce it would be met with litigation! I received a letter from the county attorney 3 days latter stating that I was exempt from their conditional use permit :) ! 3 Years ago we wanted to add a garage/wood shop to our garden center property (property is listed on 2 deeds. 7.6 acres on one deed (where we wanted to build the building) and 3.1 acres on the second deed.) My dad the owner of the company went down to Planning and zoning to get his building permit. The personnel at P&Z informed him that he was out of compliance that he was operating a commercial company in an R-4 zoned residential area and he could not obtain a permit. He told them that he was a farm. P&Z incorrectly informed him that he had to have 10 acres to be a farm (and older statue.) He informed them that he in fact owed 10 acres. They then informed him that it all had to be on one deed and that if he wanted to hire an attorney and pay the court costs to merge the two deeds that they would reconsider afterward. He came home empty handed (no permit) So I persuaded him to let me have a crack at them. The next day I went down and spoke to the same individual. And he started to hand me the same song and dance... right up till I ask him if he was enforcing the laws of the State of Kentucky or was he just making up his own laws as he went along? I then reminded him of the definition of an Agricultural entity in our state is 5.1 acres and since we wanted this building build on our 7.6 acre property that had been a greenhouse for the last 30 years what was the problem? I then ask him if he would like to read a photocopy of the stated statue defining agricultural entities I happen to have brought a copy with me (grin, grin) ... After some looking and a chat with his supervisor, I got my building permit! Moral of the story... know your rights and come prepared with the facts "and the truth shall set you free"!

Best wishes,

s.

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Permalink Reply by Steve on March 9, 2010 at 9:44pm

Hi again Delilah,

After we got our building permit, I was informed that in order to build our new garage/ wood shop we would be required to get a Demolition Permit to tear down a small greenhouse (occupied the same space as the proposed new building) that we threw up 20 years ago because we had run out of space and needed space quick. We built it out of wood and covered it with single layer corrugated Fiberglass ( approx. 800 sq . ft.) and was a temporary building the day we built it. They told me that I had to have every utility including preservation sign off on the permit before they would let me tear it down. The water company wanted to shut the water off to the entire property (30 plus greenhouses and a residence) so I could tear this building down. I ask them if they shut off the water at General Electric's entire Appliance Park every time they want to tear down some out building? They finally got the message. The local ordinance states that if the building is over 1,500 sq. ft. That I could not tear the building down myself... I would have to pay a licensed wreaking contractor to tear the building down. Well we got our permit and tore the building down ourselves but this ordinance really hacked me off. So I called my local councilwoman and ask her why she voted for this ordinance. Hear is what she said "My first responsibility is to protect my constitutes safety. I had a constitute that had a next door neighbor that decided to tear down a garage ... by using dynamite. Parts of the garage flew over and damaged my constitutes house." And I politely replied... I am sorry ma'am but YOU CAIN'T FIX STUPID! there was a long silence on the other end of the phone and she said what did you say? So I repeated it. And then said anyone that is that stupid as to pull a stunt like that first of all will not be aware of your demolition ordinance and even if they are they won't care! Buy the way where did they get the dynamite? Talk about a regulated substance! We already have plenty of protection for your constitute. If their property is damaged they can sue for damages, If someone is injured or God for bid killed, that is called manslaughter and somebody is going to Prison. All you have accomplished with this ordinance is raised the price of doing business in our town! I also ask her how many political contributions had she received from local demolition companies... she did not find that amusing, and I don't really care! :)

The old saying " if you cain't make it in the business world become a teacher " ? well there is a second line to that. If you can't make it as a teacher run for political office! It is a wonder that our governments, Federal, State, and Local operate at all with people like this at the helm!

s.

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Permalink Reply by Delilah Onofrey on March 10, 2010 at 7:53pm

Good for you for standing up for yourself!

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